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Swami-Ji: When most everything which they thought we still practice today. Like Buddha, the Four Noble Truths and the [inaudible 00:00:07] of Buddha are still being practiced today in monasteries. Many Westerners love Buddhism and they don't ... so Buddha would be 95% right and then when it came to women and this stuff, he would suddenly be fucked up. It's very difficult to presume that, so here is something coming from the Buddha. Buddha talking about the Buddhist community or the mood or the Sangha. He said if women had not renounced their household life and ordained in the religion of the Tripiṭaka. He is the Tripiṭaka, the Buddha, so he says if women wouldn't have done this, the holy life, like the dharma, the teaching, which he gives, would have lasted long.
Swami-Ji: The core teachings of Buddhists of what he's teaching would have remained for 1,000 years. That's a symbolic number because they already lost in 2005 [inaudible 00:01:05]. Because the ordination of women has occurred in the religion of the Tripiṭaka, because he said, "Because I allowed women to become Buddhist, the holy life will not last long. The true dharma will last for only 500 years, like half, half-time." Ananda, Ananda was his cousin and his follower, the next patriarch of Buddhist. Ananda, " In whatever religion women are ordained, that religion will not last long." As families that have more women than men are easily destroyed by robbers in the old days, you have to defend yourself, but right now with police and so on. If you had in a family 50 women and three men, then guess what happened? The thieves would come, rape the women, kill the men, steal the produce and that was it. But it was [inaudible 00:02:02] necessary in those wild days that you have many men. Why? For the muscle, for the defense of it. It was as simple as that.
Swami-Ji: He says, just like in that, as a plentiful rice field, once infested by rice worms will not long remain, as a sugar cane field invaded by red rot will not long remain, even so, the true dharma will not last long. Buddha simply says that women weaken spirituality because they are not as fanatic as determined, will say, "Yeah, why don't we also make a compromise about this? Hot showers, hot shower. [inaudible 00:02:53] shower. Masculine, feminine. Buddha, in one of his texts, says in crossing the river from Samsara to Nirvana, when crossing the river, he called it crossing the river, crocodiles are a designation for women. When you cross a river, the danger is crocodiles, so he considers as women as obstacles, potential obstacles of the [inaudible 00:03:23] he refers to sex, and Buddha is not giving here Tantric teaching of any kind.
Swami-Ji: He said it in another way. If it were not for women being admitted into our order, into Buddhist, my teaching would have lasted 1,000 years. Now they will not last 500. Also in another place, again, politically incorrect, Buddha says, "Women with their two-fingered wisdom," which is a metaphor for stupidity, "have a difficult time understanding what I teach." That's Buddha's own words about it. Well, you think, okay, Buddha was a difficult guy. Confucius, the father of Confucian, is the teacher of many philosophies in China and so one, he said, "Women have as much brains as a rooster and very smart women have as much brains as two rooster."
Swami-Ji: That's Confucian, yeah? As I told you, it's not getting better [foreign language 00:04:32] those of you who want to read the [foreign language 00:04:36] which is the first pillar of Indian culture. [foreign language 00:04:40] considers, the [inaudible 00:04:41] is considered one of the [foreign language 00:04:45]. He seeks the [inaudible 00:04:46] about the feminine condition and he gives ... It's a long quote, so I didn't bring it, all of it. Just google it and see, find for yourself. He basically describes some of the things of the temperament of women, like talking too much, nagging, being all the time attached and afraid of tomorrow. What am I going to wear? What am I going to eat? What am I going to ... being very materialistic and he describes the feminine condition as [inaudible 00:05:15] like a loadstone like difficult for spirituality, so it exists in [foreign language 00:05:20].
Swami-Ji: In Judaism, not only that there is this politically incorrect prayer, which I told you about, and many other things out there, but even the salvation is happening only through men. For example, the registration of your soul with God is called Bar Mitzvah. It's the equivalent of what Christians have turned into baptist, the Jewish baptism is called Bar Mitzvah. Maybe you don't know but Bar Mitzvah is given only to the boys. It's not for girls. Today, of course, it's democracy and feminism in Israel as well and in the Jewish community, they do a sort of a fake Bar Mitzvah for girls because it would be too visible and but religiously, it doesn't exist.
Swami-Ji: This is echoed in the Christian story where if you remember, Jesus is supposed that two times in his life, he did a great miracle where he materialized bread and fish or something like that and Jesus made it for thousands of people, like huge amounts and they changed and Jesus made bread and fish and they gave to everybody and everybody ate, and when they gathered the crumbs left from that, it was like 12 baskets of crumb alone, crumbs, and says the common baker, the gospel writer, "There were in those place like 5,000 people without the counting the women and children." There are 5,000 people without taking into account how many women and children because women and children are not the people. That's in the Bible, which is a text of love. It's written right there and it comes directly from Judah, like the Christian theologians even launched the question: if Eve was made from the rib of Adam. If Eve had a soul of herself because Adam is the one who received the soul from God. Eve was just one of his ribs.
Swami-Ji: Do women have any independent soul or they live through their men? There are 5,000 people and the rest are children who will be baptized and women who live through their husband and they belong to their husband. This was the old days. I'm not saying that I agree with it because again, in the Tantric tradition, things are very different and there are different lines in spirituality where you can see many, many differences in ... But in Christianity, for example, Jesus was completely compassionate and he gave complete freedom. Why? You can see that in how many religions do there exist female sayings like the society agrees this woman has become a Buddha? This woman has become friends with God?
Swami-Ji: In Buddhist, it's very [inaudible 00:08:47] very. In Tibetan Buddhist, because there is a bit of Tantra in it and they worship female deities like [foreign language 00:08:55] and so on, in Buddhist, you hear some stories, but they are very, very marginal. Most of the great Buddhist yogis and enlightened [inaudible 00:09:05] they're all men, just totally masculine environment. Go in Thailand and tell me if you see the photo or the statue of a holy Buddhist woman. There isn't. They're all men, so in Buddhist, it's almost not at all. In Hinduism, there that some, some, very seldom. In the 20th century, how many spiritual women made history in India? We have [foreign language 00:09:37] but the list is great. How many of them were women? Well, it's the 20th century. We are not in modern Medieval times. There was [foreign language 00:09:53] and there was the mother of our [inaudible 00:09:55] and now in the 21st century, you have Amedee, but besides these, how many? So the percentage ... In Hinduist, there are some female saints like Mirabai in the 16th century, but the percentage is very small.
Swami-Ji: The British made a survey of the yogis when the British were ruling India, they made calls, like, okay, in India, [inaudible 00:10:21] yogis, how many yogis are there and how many are men and how many are women? There were five times more male yogis than female yogis. Although, theoretically, shouldn't have been opposition that somebody should be a yogi or a yogi [inaudible 00:10:40] but it was India ... We're talking about India 100 years ago, still, so there is a bit of female saintliness in Hinduist, which is a very tolerant religion and open. In Judaist, forget about it. I just don't know how things are.
Swami-Ji: Christianity becomes very open because theoretically, every woman can become a saint and we had Saint Catherine the Great and we have Saint Barbara and we had Saint Teresa of Ávila and we had saint, saint, saint, saint, saint, starting with Virgin Mary, who is supposed to be the greatest person on Earth, the greatest person on Earth is a woman 'cause Jesus doesn't matter. Jesus is not a person on Earth. Jesus is something else, but among with the human beings, Virgin Mary is like the queen of heavens, so definitely femininity is highlighted and still, but still, if you take the dictionary of sayings and say there have been in monasteries for women. There still are tons of them.
Swami-Ji: How many men have been proclaimed saints in the last 2,000 years? How many women? You're going to found out that the percentage of women is much smaller. Oh, because man didn't want to recognize them when they were saints, but they were cut off the list out of jealousy or what? Make up your own mind. I'm just signaling to you the trends of this. Then, of course, even when the women became saints, they did not require to become priests. You know that the aberrant new forms, all the Christianity in the new forms, Protestant, Anglican and so on, only the Catholic and the Orthodox Church, Catholic in the Western Europe and Orthodox in the Eastern Europe, they are the only ones we are resist [inaudible 00:12:39] to this trend, that women can absolutely not be priests. Women can be priests in Wicca. If they want to do with witchcraft and magic. Women can be witches, but priests of Jesus, no.
Swami-Ji: Even Teresa of Ávila, I invite you to watch the Life of Teresa of Ávila. She was an [inaudible 00:13:01] astrologically, a very impulsive woman, very fiery, very headstrong, very stubborn, really like, and the struggle [inaudible 00:13:11] people fought against her almost physically. This woman had obstacles, obstacles, obstacles, obstacles and she fought for 50 years like a tigress. She was proclaimed doctorate in theology by the pope of her time. She was recognized. He said, "This woman is a doctorate in theology, although she never studied theology, her knowledge is perfect. Leave her alone." She was recognized. She was, again, having a lot of opposition. Teresa of Ávila who was a fearless woman, she never said, "Actually, if I'm so much smarter than all these priests around me, why don't you make me a priest?" No. Never. Any one of the saints of Christianity, male or female said that because they understood very well that women are gifted to make babies but they are not gifted to be priests. There is a difference. Everybody has a gift and this gift belongs to men.
Swami-Ji: It's not visible and that's why I say, "How can you demonstrate that?" I can not demonstrate that. We just know it as a fact coming from spiritual history and us, if you go ... if we stay in Christianity, which again, in my opinion, Christianity, except Tantra perhaps, Christianity is the most liberal of all of them. Christianity has opened the doors completely and said, "Any woman wants to fall on her knees and pray to Jesus 15 hours per day and reach the nirvana, we will take off our hat in front her. We'll recognize her. We'll say, 'Yes, this woman has made it and she can be worshiped as a saint.'" There is no limitation, no restriction to that, but still, there are many, many things to be said there.
Swami-Ji: Paul, the great apostle of Christ, a very smart man who most of Christianity is [inaudible 00:15:16] based on his letters, the polemic Christianity, the polemic Christianity as it's called by theologians today, Paul, when he wanted to describe the relationship between a man and a woman because they said, "Paul, we come from the Roman Empire, and the Roman Empire does this and like this and like this. What does Jesus tell you about men and women? How are Christians different from Romans or from Greeks? How should Christian men and women behave?" And Christian Paul, in the Bible, says, "Men and women on the head and the body. The man is the head and the woman is the body. The head commands and the body should listen to what the head tells it to do, but the head should take care of the body because it survives only via the body, so a head which doesn't take care of its body is boomeranging, is having ... It's destroying itself."
Swami-Ji: Basically Paul had said it's like the car with one driving wheel, and the driving wheel is in the hands of the man. The man must keep the steering wheel in his hands because the man is the head and if you are not the head, the woman will be desperate and will take over the steering wheel, but not because she really, really wants. Her ego may push her to drive, but you slap her over the hand and say, "No, no, the steering wheel is my hand in this life. I'm in the man and you are the woman." [inaudible 00:16:54]
Swami-Ji: That's what Paul said. We are Christian. I'm the head You are the body. If the mad does it lovingly and wisely, then things are clarified from the very beginning. In this way, remember that all these things come from all along the [inaudible 00:17:17]. Islam ... You know about Islam. There are some Sufi female practitioners. They are allowed Fridays in the mosque and not in the other days of the week and therefore, in Islam, it's more macho than definitely more than in Christianity and the mention of female saints, I for one, don't remember the mention of one single Sufi or Islamic female saint, so it's a little bit more like Buddhist and that, Judaism.
Swami-Ji: In Sikhism, in other, Shintoism, you name it, it's pretty much the same. [inaudible 00:17:56] all the secondary ... There are five main religions and about 10, 20 secondary religions. In all of them, the [inaudible 00:18:04] is clear: Men are supposed to be the priests of heaven. Now there are exceptions. As I said in Wicca, in natural cults, whenever we deal with Shamanists, which like who can invoke spirits to produce rain. Women who can do that very well, but the fact that you can invoke some spirit to bring rain, which is called sorcery or witchcraft or Shamanist, that doesn't prove any spirituality. That doesn't require any connection with [foreign language 00:18:38] with the [inaudible 00:18:39]. That's just natural forces and of course, women are very good with natural forces because they represent the Mother Nature. Women represent Shakti and therefore, you want to do something about the forces of nature? [inaudible 00:18:57] a woman do it.
Swami-Ji: You want some injection from the transcendental consciousness brought? Ask a man to bring that. Each one has their field of responsibility in this life and even in native cultures and others and others, there is all of this stuff. I'm not going to insist, and of course, the exception is in Tantra. We here in Agama, we have initiations given to you that say about cosmic powers. Just last month, there was initiations with [foreign language 00:19:33] with one of the [foreign language 00:19:35]. What do you think the initiations with the goddess will be more than natural if given by a woman or by a man? Most of our people in charge, project leaders when this are women, so of course, there are places where a lot of initiations and a lot of things, especially in Tantra they are human by women. On the other hand, that a woman can give you an initiation with Shiva, that's very difficult.
Swami-Ji: Of course, some women like [foreign language 00:20:11] and so on, they could do that. Those are very peculiar women who have transcended their condition. Women can, in the Gospel of Mary Magdalen or the Gospel of Peter, one of the gnostic gospels, which has never been censured by the Church because there is this paranoia that the Bible which we have now was censured shamelessly by the Church. It's partly true and partly not true and I could tell you a lot about this. It's completely not appropriate in our workshop, so I'm not going there.
Swami-Ji: There are gospels which have never been touched by the Church, like for example, the Gnostic Gospels, both the ones from the Dead Sea Scrolls and the ones from the Nag Hammadi Library and the couple of others that survived and which can be read. They have been transmitted by scholars and they can be read. One of these is called the Gospel of whatever, Peter or Mary Magdalen or something and therefore, it's not in the Bible and there, Peter, one of the head disciple of Jesus notices the fact that when Jesus is teaching them, there is a woman present at the teaching and that's obviously Mary Magdalen. And the Judaism with this rabbi [inaudible 00:21:34] I think was an all-male society and Jesus was the rebel who were allowing women to participate into the ... And Peter who is a bit of a rude guy, he says, "What is Mary doing here? Because she's a woman and explain. You are a teacher and you as a teacher know that women can't do these things. Why do you allow her to be here?"
Swami-Ji: Jesus, when he answers, he doesn't say, "Peter, bullshit. Nonsense. You [inaudible 00:22:07]. That's not true." While Jesus, you know that he was a rebel and he could have said that. He said, "They told you, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth,' but I'm telling you a rubbish. nonsense. Turn your cheek seven times seven. If somebody slaps you on one cheek, turn the other." Jesus is not afraid to change the tenants of the past. And Peter is asking him, "What about this? Because this woman is here. Why?" Jesus doesn't say, "Oh, it was a wrong teaching. Women can as well be part of it." Jesus says, "Don't worry because I will make her be like a man," so women can do that, but if they become like man, not if they stay in their feminine nature, so Jesus doesn't actually say, "Oh yeah, by the way, women can be priests." No, he doesn't say that.
Swami-Ji: Again, in Tantra, it's a very, very different thing because Tantra speaks about the dance of Shiva and Shakti and Shiva is 50%. Shakti is 50%. Shakti is divine. Shakti is the mother of the universe. We worship Shakti under the forms of the goddesses and that's why in Tantra, in my humble opinion, it's the most liberal and spiritual environment on this planet for women. Women really receive the 50% share, which they deserve according to their agenda, but even in Tantra, we cannot claim that men would start making babies in their belly because they will not. It's not possible and therefore, although we know that spiritually, men and women represent the same divine spirit, we also know that men and women are different in so many ways. Remember, in sports, women don't compete with men. It's as simple as that because it would be a total fiasco. Women compete with women and men ... because otherwise, man would win all the time. It's as simple as that.
Swami-Ji: That's why we understand the role of the masculine and feminine and here is something which you should understand on a more deep level because I told you all this and you say, "But [Swami-Ji 00:24:38] it sounds almost scary like Buddha said that. Confucius said, Jesus said that. Paul said that. Now everybody ... You quoted a lot of big names and it's that good red thread. It's like a silver thread running through history.
Swami-Ji: Of course, we are happy that in Tantra, if a woman decides that she wants to stand on her head 30 minutes every day and if she decide that she wants to do Pranayama two hours per day and if she decided she wants to work on her third eye, I don't know how much, a woman theoretically can reach Samadhi, can reach high states of consciousness, can reach whatever she reach and basically, the women are the equals of men in a spiritual way and in some places, they can do more than men, like they can bring babies to the world if they want, which man cannot, as much as they try and in some places, they can not do as much as men simply because they don't have to gift of that.
Swami-Ji: I, for one, I can tell you I have seen in my life women which were totally praiseworthy in spirituality. I remember having read Chögyam Trungpa, I think, who said that ... or [inaudible 00:25:49] High Lama of Tibet, who said that he was the head Lama of some female monasteries. There are some nunneries in Tibet and he said, "I've been there," and he said, "When I visited the first female monastery, then I ...
Speaker 1: In the first female monastery, then I understood because those woman had less rights than the men. The Tibetan society was a bit macho, and the women were kept down. And those women who were in the monastery, to justify their existence as nuns, they were doing double the practice, which men did in their monasteries. So you see that when I went there, I saw what real, serious practitioners women could be. He said, "I got embarrassed. I got ashamed because those women ... I've just come in from a male monastery, and the women in this monastery, they were doing two times more yoga per day than the guys like the guys were a bunch of lazy bums compared to these women, simply because they were under this" ... so don't think that women can be weaker in this way, and you can see in Nogama, there are some woman who practice phenomenally well, and they are excellently motivated.
Speaker 1: When I lived in the communist years in Romania, I was under political inquiry. I've been arrested, tortured, beaten, ransacked, and everything. I've endured the iron fist of communists full on, and in this process I've seen how men and women reacted. Very few of them, you see in movies about China and Stalinistic Russia, what the political police can actually do.
Speaker 1: You can hardly ... Most of you are born in lovely places and times, and you don't imagine how hard this gestapo shit can be, because these people have a discretionary power. And if they want, they can kill you and throw you in the ditch, and nobody will make them pay for it. They have discretionary powers, and I have been under the squish squash of such discretionary powers. I have encountered a couple of women who fared much better than men. Like I've encountered women who have the soul of a hero in their chest. I've even squashed by the communistic police. They were unbreakable. They were ... everybody was shitting their pants. Those woman were like ... No. It's like ... It gives me goosebumps only when I remember those days and those women. So don't think that, again, in Tantra, we are full on for the feminine and that's what I'm telling you here is because you have to understand the gift, which is masculinity, and value it, and cling to it because this is the gift which you got in this body, in this life. That's why you have to understand something metaphysically. As an American Tantra teacher ... he calls himself a Tantra teacher, so let it be so, called David Deida Day to day, not very famous, who is trying to express these things in an American politically correct way like he has kid gloves, and he's trying to express it in a way which is acceptable.
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you first what my teachers gave me, which is the raw version, the metaphysical, original, raw version, and then of course, to give you the David Deida version, which is the kid gloves one, in which things are put more polite, to see just how the expression of Tantra has evolved through the centuries.
Speaker 1: You know that there is a polarity. We just talked today about polarity. Shiva, Shakti, cosmic colluding, yang and yin. When you make a list of polarities, there is in the first level course, you have a big course of 12 pages about polarity, about yin and yang, and in that yin and yang, automatically some of those polarities will be alkaline, acid, plus, minus, daytime, nighttime, active, passive. Like it's common sense how the polarities are, and some of them would be light, darkness.
Speaker 1: If you go even deeper than that, some of them will be good versus evil. So if you have male, female, which one do you think is light and which one do you think is the darkness? To them, correspondence. It's inevitable that they do correspond. It doesn't mean that they act. Please have an elastic thinking. I'm talking about correspondence, not being that same, corresponding. Corresponding is a much weaker connection, but still it is a connection of principle, of resonance. So obviously the heaven is the light, and the earth is the darkness.
Speaker 1: And thus ... in Yogananda Paramahansa's teachings, he tries to make equations with the Bible and Vedanta. He says in Vedanta, the evil is called Maya ... and so Maya is like the Devil from John's gospel or something like this. It's funny that he says that being in India, because Maya in India is Bhubaneswar, one of the ten Mahavidyalayas. Therefore, Maya is a Shakti. The universe is separated in Purusha, spirit, and Prakriti, nature.
Speaker 1: Even in common parlance, we say, "be spiritual, don't be material". Spirit is God, and matter is the Devil. Spirit is Nirvana, and then Mara came and tempted Buddha to not reach Nirvana. Mara is the Devil of Buddhists, but, and Yogananda says, "the Devil is Maya." But Maya is one of the Shaktis Therefore Shakti is Prakriti, is Maya, is the same with Sansara, and therefore he could be the Devil.
Speaker 1: Therefore, if somebody goes literally on this and say, "wow so like Tantra is like worshiping the Devil." ... which is not such a wild idea in some ways, because we don't worship the Devil, but is not such a wild idea, there is a community in the Middle East, I think they are call the Druze or something like this, which are called the Devil worshipers. It's a sort of syncretic belief between Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, and they ... worship the Devil, and people ask them, "why do you worship the Devil?" And they said, "because if God is unconditionally good and helps you all the time, and the one which gives you problems is the Devil. So, you have to ask the Devil to stop torturing you, not God, who whatever you do is good and unconditionally good. Why worship God when God is anyway good, unconditionally? You have to worship the Devil, because the Devil is the one who will answer to worship."
Speaker 1: Which is to think a little bit like, oh, it makes sense. A god which is unconditionally good, then why worship? You cannot buy God. You cannot convince God. This fits in a certain way, philosophically, don't take it literally, with this. One of my gurus, when I was learning about Tantra, taught me this in the traditional way. And he told me, "be careful always about the Shakti nature."
Speaker 1: That's what I'm conveying to you now and I then I'm going to sugarcoat it, in an American way, by David Deida. What my guru told was raw, in those days, David Deida had not written his book. So, this guy was coming from the tradition, and he said, "be careful about the Shakti nature. Because, the Shakti nature is meant, in a way, to test you."
Speaker 1: You know that in the Tarot and the other Kemetic sciences ... from Egypt then, that part of the world, the 15 cards of Tarot, which is the symbol of the Devil is also called the guardian of the gate, like the sea in Egypt. Because, according to those understanding, the Devil is the one who asks you a question. Like, "I'm going to do this and then ask you what will you do?" "Oh I'm going to get angry." Oh, bad answer. It's dumb [inaudible 00:35:15] the Devil is like the guardian of the gate. When you go to the gate, the guardian is asking you one question, to just prove that you are fit to go in. And if you are wise, you give the right answer and you go in. If you are stupid, you give the wrong answer, and you are out. That's how they see the Devil. The Devil is coming here and saying, "would you like to do something really shitty, impatient," and then you say "no ... no." "Okay, step right in." The Devil has tempted you, and you passed the test.
Speaker 1: The Devil functions in spirituality like an examiner. Remember that even Jesus got tempted three times by the Devil before he started preaching. But Jesus was God. Why did he need to be tempted? Everybody is tempted. This temptation, in Tantra, is Shakti. So Shakti, who is in your bedroom, unconsciously, is moved by some aspects of our deep subconscious mind, which makes the [inaudible 00:36:32].
Speaker 1: David Deida has sugarcoated it and has said that women are constantly challenging you because they psychologically are afraid that you have become too weak, and it's exactly like a carpenter uses his axe and hits a pole in the house, just to see if the wood is eaten by termites and has gotten rotten. And you hit the wood, and it's okay, the wood is still happy and then you can be happy for another one week. And after one week, he does this again. So David Deida doesn't put it metaphysically, because it's a psychological thing. Women subconsciously want to know that their man is made of steel, inside. Unconsciously, [inaudible 00:37:27] it's like an instinct which is stronger than them, they come on at you from time to time. They hack at you. They don't hack at you because they are evil. They hack at you because of their own insecurity, because they want to make sure that you are still standing on the horse, that you are still on. It's a self-defense.
Speaker 1: So David Deida says if any of you think, "when am I going to have a nice obedient woman, who will be simply leaving me alone?" The answer is never. 'Til the day you die, your woman is going to be like Woody Woodpecker. She is going to peck at you, and that's a sort of a test from the universe. David Deida doesn't want to say that Shakti, the universe tests you. David Deida simply says it's a psychological need of every woman. The women do this, testing you always, even involuntary, and even against their best interest. Remember, there are women who peck at their men, the men collapse, and then the woman was miserable. You can say, "couldn't she just have left him alone? If she gave him a break, she would at least have a man. Yeah, not very strong, it's true. He was about to collapse, but at least she would have a man." That doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: In India, [inaudible 00:39:14] published and image of Kali, the black goddess, and he says, "Kali is going to test every man, and if the man is not strong enough, Kali is going to squash him under her feet. There is no mercy for the weak." Only the Viras, the valiant men, Viras ... you are in a Vira workshop ... only the heroic men at heart can resist Kali for a while, and only the divine ones will earn her respect. Like with the feminine, it's a constant challenge. It's a constant challenge. David Deida expresses it psychological. He says, "your women, out of fear, they chop the wood all day trying to see if you are still oak. If you are oak tree, is still good."
Speaker 1: Metaphysically, my teachers told me simply that Shakti represents this guardian of the gate, and her secret function is to test you. And if you break, you break. Tough luck. The woman is not going to be happy if you break. It's not an ego thing. You break, and then the woman is miserable. A woman whose man has fallen apart is a miserable woman. She misses her daddy. She doesn't have this protective father figure in her life. Remember, men want to be like ... they have to be also like fathers. It was Maria Alcoforado of Portugal, a famous Portuguese woman who wrote the love letters, the famous five love letters of Maria Alcoforado ... read them if you want to understand female psychology in love ... and Maria Alcoforado wrote some three centuries ago, she said, "for me the man in whom I can totally abide is the man who is not only my lover, but my friend, my brother, my father, my son, my cousin, my grandfather, my everything. My relationship with a man has to be total."
Speaker 1: In the quest for the relationship, women ... also want to be your little girl. They want you to be protective. They look for this protection. That's why women generally like men who are psychically bigger, because they feel that bigger men can protect them more. It's an instinctive thing. Of course, there can be small men who can protect them as much or more. Morihei Eushiba the father of aikido was just one [inaudible 00:42:15] tall, and Morihei Eushiba when you read his biography, you will see that is considered to have been, perhaps, a little Japanese man, he is considered to have been, perhaps, the strongest man that ever lived on Earth.
Speaker 1: Morihei Eushiba could catch a tree about as thick ... a bamboo tree as thick as this pillar, a bit thicker than this pillar, could catch it like this and put it out of the roof. Uproot it with his bare hands. [inaudible 00:42:46] was something insane. You can't even understand how he got that power. And so the fact that he was small didn't matter. Any man, big or small, can train outstandingly if he feels the psychological need for it.
Speaker 1: It's not about that, but women have this instinctive thing. Part of the women ... you never understood it, but part of the women ... and those of you who are more experienced with women, you know it is so ... part of the women look in you also for the babies. Not hundred percent. They want you to talk with them. They want you to joke with them they want you to ... and sometimes they take you in their arms and they want you to be their baby. And they will ... the relationship is on all the chakras, but part of it is this.
Speaker 1: So remember, a woman who wants a man who is strong and protects her and makes her feel like a little girl, but she's constantly pecking you to see if you are still that man. And in the moment that you are not, you can say, "but come on, last year I had hepatitis, and of course I am kind of fucked up because of hepatitis, but the last one year I barely drank..." Your woman will not care about that. Tough luck.
Speaker 1: Ah, a woman who is like [inaudible 00:44:08] will look at it also from the Jesus standpoint and say, "sure." But a woman who is very much of a woman and not enlightened would not answer to that, would simply say, "I don't know, I don't know why, I cannot." You say, "why do you keep pecking at him? The man is indefatigable." " I don't know dear, I don't know, I just can't stop from doing that." It's almost like an instinctive, wild thing present in women. So if you hope you are going to get peace from your woman, the answer is you will not. Never. 'Til you die. The woman is Prakriti, Shakti, Kali. She is dancing the jig, and she's testing you constantly.
Speaker 1: That's the challenge of being a Vira. That's why the Tantric men have said, "okay, then we have to be warriors. Then we have to be strong, we don't go down." When you read of the life of El Cid, the famous liberator of Spain, El Cid is wounded and he still wants to go to battle because if he doesn't show up, they will lose the battle. And his wife is coming there, after she hasn't seen him for twenty years, and she says, "you cannot, I'll take you somewhere, I'll feed you, I'll ... " She tries to do the feminine thing to protect him, and he grabs her by the hand and he says, "Jimena, you cannot save my life. You have to help me give it up with dignity." He's a man 'til the last ... til the moment when he is on his deathbed. He's a man. He lives according to a principle. He is a hero, and even when his wife is trying to weaken him.
Speaker 1: Remember in Latin, in all the Latin languages as well, the name of woman comes from the Latin "mulier". "Mulier" is the woman in Latin. "Mulier" has the same grammatical root as "softening down". "Mulier" means, when you put bread into water, then you "mulier" the bread. This softening, you make something like jelly. So the woman is making you soft. You ejaculate, and then you become like putty in her hands. The "mulier" is softening you down. And the Viras are not softening down. They keep the practicality.
Speaker 1: The woman, like the sea hitting against a rock ... the sea is trying to erode that rock. The feminine will always erode your masculinity. Therefore, you have to build it up.
Speaker 1: Yes, the sexual thing is an important thing. I remember I met at one time a guy who was a super, super rich guy, probably not millionaire but billionaire ... controversial sugar industry in Sudan and other things ... those of you who are more [inaudible 00:47:19] or something might go on a rampage ... he was just a very rich man, and British, and his origins were from Hong Kong. Now all that environment, Chinese, British, millions and billions ...
Speaker 1: I found with surprise that he knew how to hold back his ejaculation, and I said, "how come?" And he said, "when I was fourteen years old, my nurse ... the family, I was living with my family in Hong Kong, and we had a caretaker, a nurse, a woman who had taken care of me since ... so when I was fourteen, she comes to me and she says, "my good son, come here, I have to tell you something." An old Chinese woman. And she told me, "now, I have to tell you something which boys don't know, and a man has to find out. Soon you are going to start being sexually active, masturbating, doing whatever. If you lose your semen, you're going to become a woman. Let me tell you something which we know in China." And she just told him exactly, a simplified version.
Speaker 1: Of course it was not spiritual, it was not Tantra, it was not about sublimation, meditation, transfiguration. These things are specific to Tantra. But she told him a sort of a low-grade Tantra, like Tantra for bourgeois people. You have to hold your semen to just be a man. This man benefited. He knew, he told me, "because of that, I am who I am."
Speaker 1: Thus ... it's not only about sexual confidence. That's an aspect of Svadhisthana, but Svadhisthana is a very important chakra on this planet, and there are other things which you will learn tomorrow and in the next days, about masculinity on each chakra.
Speaker 1: Remember, masculinity is a spiritual gift. It is eroded, it is contested, it is controversial. Most of you are not even in love with your own masculinity, and because of this you have to think carefully if you want to live the lives of Viras and be like that, or if you actually don't care. It can be spiritual Viras, or it can be Deida-like Viras. But be somewhere there, develop the Vira spirit. And don't use what I told you in the last one hour and a half, the Buddha said that and Confucius said that. Don't tell it to any of the women in your life, because we are not trying to put them down. We worship the feminine for what it is, and then at the same time we know that the feminine needs us to be what we are supposed to be and fill up the other fifty percent, our part of responsibility.
Speaker 1: It's completely ridiculous when in a couple you see that the man is watching football and the woman is doing meditation. That man is not a man to his woman. That man is Earth and the woman is heaven. The polarity is reversed. Then the woman is the more masculine one. Always a man has to be more spiritual than his woman.
Speaker 1: In India, the husband is the guru. The woman says, "you will be my guru. If you go to Hell, I go to Hell after you. You are the helmsman of the ship. I trust in your decisions. If you take us both to Hell, we both go to Hell." It's a confidence, you know? The man has a responsibility. The woman is clinging to you, and if you take her to Hell, she goes to Hell. So better don't. Don't take her to Hell. Take her to Heaven.
Speaker 1: That's why there is a responsibility to be a man. You always have to be one step ahead of your woman. You always have to be more spiritual. You always have to be more anchored in the principles. Live according to the principles. Either you respect the principles of Buddha, or of Jesus, or of whoever, live according to principles. Women will always admire a man who is faithful to his principles. That's admire ... they will try to stop you from being faithful to your principles, but when you win, they will bow down and say, "yes, we admire you for that." So...
Swami-Ji: For that. So understand correctly. You will understand very easily the nature of masculinity because now it's a hodge podge in your mind, but when you will split it and see. What is masculinity on Muladhara? What is masculinity on Svadhisthana? What is masculinity on Manipura? Anahata? Visuddha? Ajna? And then you will start understanding what do you have? Oh, I have a little bit of masculinity on Muladhara, and I have some masculinity on Manipura.
Swami-Ji: You will understand yourselves, and then you will understand what you don't have, and you will understand what you want to cultivate. And which one you want to cultivate may be all of them, and how, and you will get methods for working on it, and then even when you do yoga for the next five years, this will be somewhere in the back. You will know that among others, one of your things is that you want to cultivate masculinity. Remember, if you don't live in a world where there is gender and sex, it doesn't matter. There have been yogis who looked like girls, like Yogananda Paramahansa. But Yogananda was not a tantric man. He didn't have lovers. He was an androgynical yogi. Half man, half girl. He was just a child of God. If you want to become such a neutral gendered person, fine. You, of course, will not have too much success in tantra, but then it means you don't want and you don't need that. That's possible, but as long as you stay in tantra and you are interacting with the opposite gender, then you have to fulfill your side of the deal. It's an assumed thing.
Swami-Ji: Like you say, "Isn't that a headache?" Yes. It is a headache, and we take that headache upon ourself. We say, "Yes. Because that's how I'm going to live my life. I am going to carry this yoke on my shoulders. It's my cross that I'm going to stay masculine in this life 'cause my women will expect me to be masculine." And that's it.
Swami-Ji: I assumed it. It's not a must. It's something which you take if you want to take. And us, I hope that this workshop will open your appetite and will give you the tools for which you will start a lifelong of masculinity. And I really, really hope that some of you will fall in love with your masculinity and will understand that sure, there is an amazing thing in true femininity, and that also there is an amazing thing in true masculinity.
Swami-Ji: And I, right now, I have absolutely no reason to envy the amazing aspects of femininity, because I can't have them. I'm not a woman. I'm not in the body of a woman. So it's like I'm longing for the moon. Yeah? I can't have the moon in the palm of my hand, so why should I long for it? It's unwise. Right now, I have to long for what I can have, and what I long, because I'm a man, I want to experience masculinity.
Swami-Ji: If the universe will decide to teach me something about femininity at some time, sure. I'm open. No? The universe, the universal consciousness, is the ocean in which we live, therefore we are surrendering completely, but otherwise, it's an assumation. It's a owning, and we have to own our masculinity.
Swami-Ji: I could speak so much more, but your teachers here are very passionate, very fond of these things, and I hope some of you will become also passionate, fond, participant in the [inaudible 00:55:54] activities in this school. And so I'm stopping here. As [Aram 00:56:01] suggested, I can take a few questions, and of course, your teachers are very, very good. I don't know. I mean, it's only for the pleasure that I talk with you, and that you can ask me questions directly, but otherwise, of course, they are very, very qualified to answer your questions. Yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In some circles, maybe neo-religious or more Western or the like, there are people living in the awakening of the feminine side, the divine feminine. Could you comment [inaudible 00:56:33]?
Swami-Ji: It's not always divine. I mean, when I look at the feminine environment, and I've seen much of this New Age thing, it's most of it shitty ego. So in this way, you can say, "This man has done this and that." And then his wife came and said, "Why don't you do that? They're making fun of you. They are provoking you, no?" So who is running the world? The woman from the bedroom by stepping on the toes of the man and provoking him all the time.
Swami-Ji: If you would have been like Jesus, you would have said, "Woman, you are stupid. Shut up. The devil is talking through you right now." You know? You would have been a [inaudible 00:57:08]. No? But because the man was weak, so sometimes these women policies which try to undermine the manliness, they are just demonic kalyuga influences. Ah. If the men are assholes.
Swami-Ji: I cannot agree with the fact that somebody is coming and taking your girlfriend and rapes her in the forest. Of course, violence and things like this are unacceptable and they have to be punished accordingly and all that. I am not endorsing a masculine behavior which is aggressive and ugly and selfish, but there is a thin line somewhere, until which the masculinity can have a monstrous aspect and from where it is just an aspect of dignity and verticality. So that's what I am talking about. Please.
Speaker 3: Hello. I felt a lot of truths in what you said, and then some things I just thought, I don't get this at all, and one of the things was your opening statement about 90% of men being in jail, and the ... your interpretation, this meant society was misandrous. Anti-man. And I wondered-
Swami-Ji: What's your explanation, then?
Speaker 3: ... My explanation? Well, my question would be, what possible laws, what examples of laws are there, than men are in jail for that shouldn't be crimes? And what things that wouldn't-
Swami-Ji: That's a very creative question-
Speaker 3: What things-
Swami-Ji: ... And I'm happy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Swami-Ji: I'm happy you have asked it. I don't know if I can give you an answer now because I am now very aware of the legal system, but there has to be a sort of balancing in such a way that if we have prisons in which there are 50% men and 50% women, that sounds more right. So there has to be something. Think about it.
Speaker 3: I-
Aram: One example-
Swami-Ji: One example. If a woman is nagging you, she should go to prison. Maybe it should be tight, and maybe we left the screw too loose on the side of the women, and women, they can do pretty much whatever they want. They say, "Walter has raped me." And actually, the police comes and researches it, it's not true. Well then, go to prison if you said such a stupid thing.
Speaker 3: They do. You go to prison for perjury. Two years.
Swami-Ji: Again, maybe ... That's why. I'm not aware of the legal system, so I cannot give you legal advice on this, but I'm just seeing the fruits of the tree. It's not correct that you have a society in which the members of one gender are three times more in prison than the members of the other gender. It's simply not correct.
Swami-Ji: Again, I say, if it would be Black people or if it would be ... You would scream off. You would jump up and say, "Come on, this is ... Something is completely wrong in our society." And with men, everybody takes it. Everybody knows that men are filling up the prisons, and yet nobody complains about it and says, "Something is wrong."
Speaker 3: Obviously, something is wrong, I just think the idea that it's unfair is a unsupported conclusion, for me.
Swami-Ji: Again, I don't have an answer to this. Aram wanted to say something very much, so let him say, but I don't have the full answer to this one. I don't have all the answers.
Aram: First, just give an example, like for example, this woman said it and it's not true, but if a woman for a lifetime rides a man down to the point of flat style, she's miserable for doing that.
Aram: 20 years ago, would there have been a law to stop that? Because domestic violence, you can prove and punish for. What about psychological torture? Can you accuse someone? I met this woman. She's psychologically torturing me and destroying my masculinity. Is it a valid claim, and is there a law? Because there are consequences. [inaudible 01:01:17] is full of dead bodies of men who didn't have anywhere to go, and said, "I am domestically tortured psychologically because she can't beat me up, but she can nag me to death." That's just one example.
Aram: Another example, a lot of laws are against testosterone. But for example, in the old days, in musketeer times in France, everybody had [inaudible 01:01:44] and if [Muktanada 01:01:46] would look in a wrong way at my girlfriend, it was legal for me to duel him to the death. And if I would win, the other men would clap me, an honorable man. Today, it's homicide. Society was thinking in a different way. And I'm not saying this is better, but in the old days, the road was dangerous. You had to protect your woman, and if you would, it would be okay. And in Japan, in the feudal time, just to make it really extreme, there was just ... There were many laws, but just one punishment. Death. For any crime. These were more masculine oriented societies, just to open you, the mind. I'm not saying this is better or that is better, but to show that it's different approaches to certain things.
Speaker 3: I understand. I think you're more free to leave a nagging person than someone who threatens you. I don't think you have more-
Swami-Ji: No. Not free.
Speaker 3: ... I can understand where you're going with that-
Swami-Ji: In the medieval time, you know-
Speaker 3: [crosstalk 01:02:54] the thought. It's interested.
Swami-Ji: ... If you're asking about the medieval time, in the medieval time, there was a punishment for witchcraft.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Swami-Ji: And a lot of women fell in that category.
Speaker 3: They did. Yeah.
Swami-Ji: Today, of course, we're being told it was all wrong. They're all innocent. Bland as lilies. Really.
Speaker 3: And you're saying they weren't?
Swami-Ji: I'm saying they weren't, all of them, white. I'm saying many of them were doing witchcraft and black magic of the worst cases.
Speaker 3: Perhaps some.
Swami-Ji: Perhaps some. That's what I'm saying. Again, it's not black and white. We definitely live in a society which has many problems, from this standpoint. That's what I'm raising. Here, we don't try to make new laws. Maybe one of you will become the President of the United States or something and will ... Or the president of some new island somewhere, and you will make new laws, and then you ... I don't know. We are not here to make laws. We are here to teach you about masculinity and to teach you the methods to develop and to live according to some principles that you choose. Either is the principles of good or Jesus or whoever it is. Have a spine, and that's all.
Speaker 3: I guess prison is a material place for material loss. That's why it doesn't include psychological damage. I would say that's the answer to that.
Speaker 3: It's an interesting idea.
Swami-Ji: And another thing, there still remains the problem that there are three times more men in prison than women, so something is wrong.
Speaker 3: They're being brought up badly.
Speaker 3: Maybe they're being brought up badly, which could be attributed to the women.
Swami-Ji: Or maybe God made a mistake and made men as inborn criminals.
Speaker 3: I don't agree with that.
Swami-Ji: No. Neither do I, but it's why I'm saying that something is skewed. That we punish more the masculinity than the feminine.
Speaker 3: Where we say we punish, women are beaten-
Swami-Ji: We made the government think-
Speaker 3: ... But in India, there's a woman raped every 20 seconds.
Swami-Ji: ... And in Switzerland-
Speaker 3: They're being punished. They're being punished in a different way.
Swami-Ji: ... And in Switzerland, the women got the right to vote in 1950. Do you realize that until 60 years ago, women could not even vote?
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think it was '72. Switzerland.
Swami-Ji: Something. Even better.
Speaker 3: But what I mean is, maybe men are being punished by being in prison. Women are being punished by being raped. I just don't buy this narrative. Many things I felt and agreed with, but this narrative I feel, to me, does not feel real. That's my truth.
Swami-Ji: Again, you are free to have your own opinions about things. You will talk with the guys about all the masculinity things.
Aram: What you're going to notice in this workshop is, and he pointed out to you, that there are so many ways in which you don't even realize how your masculinity is being tortured. We are fish swimming in water that don't know there is water around us anymore, because we are so used to it, we don't recognize we are in the water. When you hear the masculinity of the chakras as it comes about from you [inaudible 01:05:52] from the next days, you'll see. We'll point out, look, in this situation, this is male, testosterone, hormonal behavior. The equivalent of this would be the estrogenic, feminine, this and that.
Aram: For example, let's take a simple one, yeah? If I, as a man, feel horny for a woman, my testosterone is boiling, my hormone's on fire for her, and I go up to her and I grab her bum. I slap her booty. Just, you know, her. I do something sexual. It's not a rape. It's not a major molestation. And playfully, sweetly, I give her one that says, "Nice junk in the trunk." There's a big chance she may not appreciate it. Right? Then, there'll be scandal. This guy touched me in a private zone without my permission. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Aram: But as he gave the example before, the women, but I would consider an equivalent thing, which the women do way more than we slap their buttocks is nagging. Cloaking. When they call you by your name ... Allow me to use my own name as an example. [Mukanana 01:07:02]? Mukanana?
Aram: When you are with a woman, and you are giving yourself to her sexually, you present yourself open sexually with an erect penis to penetrate her, with consciousness, with love, to be present to her, to give her the gift of sublimation through love making. And she denies you. And generally not ... no real good reason. Just she says, "You know, I'm not in the mood." Well, put yourself in the mood. Bring yourself into the mood. I'm not in the mood to do certain things also.
Aram: My point is that there's no law that society didn't make up laws that when a woman gets excessively nagging, she's given a red flag and says, "Lady, no? It's going to be three months in prison if you don't shut up and behave yourself with this talk." But we don't even think like this anymore. The man in his testosterone thinks something like this is vulgar, demeanuring to the woman, disrespectful, blah, blah, no? And they can ride the man in any way that they want, and the man, no ... There's nobody standing up and saying ... Not that we should. That wouldn't be masculine. I'm not telling you to become complaining little bitches, going oh, she's nagging me, no, [inaudible 01:08:16]. It's not about this.
Speaker 3: That's feminine. Yeah.
Aram: It's not about reacting. It's first of all, getting to realize how much masculinity's being squashed, and if you look. You will have to check because he's not a lawyer. I'm not a lawyer. The law in different countries is obviously different. But check and see how much thinking that there's a gentle, normal, natural manifestation of masculinity even if sometimes it's a bit rude. It's punished, whereas the feminine, when it is rude in its own way, is like, oh, no, it's all okay. It's all [inaudible 01:08:55].
Swami-Ji: And then again, maybe it was a misunderstanding because we talked about this legal thing. I, for one, I never asked if women should be punished for something. I'm not asking for social justice or ... The fact that three times more men or five times more men are in prisons than women, that's just kalyuga, and I shrug my shoulders and I say, "This is the rotten world in which we are."
Swami-Ji: What we are going for here is for the regeneration of the individual. In the middle of a skewed world, I still want to be a vertical individual, and I want to live my truth, and I want to live my ... The fact, I am agreeing already that the society is unfair. The society crucified the Jesus, for God's sake. It's like what fair society we live in? We live in a society which is miserable.
Swami-Ji: I just read the other day a quote from Athanasius. Athanasius was one of the first Christian ascetics who went into the desert of Egypt and lived into the desert. A very, very big ascetic. And Athanasius said, he says, "I know that the world is against me," he said, "But let the world know, I'm also against it." Fuck you. It's like even if the world is like this, I stand against it. I rebel. I disagree. No? I choose to be. I have a complaint. I will revolt against the world.
Swami-Ji: Sometimes having your masculinity doesn't mean you are going to correct something, but it is important because everything is a grassroots revolution. If every man would be a man, the world would not be what it is. Therefore, the solution is a grassroots revolution. Let's regenerate man. That's what ... something we can do. So that's what we do.
Swami-Ji: How the laws are and if they will change or not, I have agreed from the very beginning that I live in an unfair world, and I'm accepting it. Crucifixion is on the list, is on the menu. No? So it's like the Tibetan gurus say also. The Buddhas are always devoured by the world. There's nothing new in kalyuga. So no.
Swami-Ji: I'm not trying to change the legal system, and I don't have a solution of how it could be, but I'm trying to teach some of you to stand up for your masculinity and live it out, because ultimately when you die, you don't have to respond for what the world did. You have to respond for your karma, for your deed, for how your mind and soul is. That's what matters for the personal evolution of each person.
Aram: And nice for you to love your masculinity and for you to have the aspiration to grow it up strongly, you have to first of all get clear. That's what today was about. What is it mean in terms of what is the masculine principle about? What is the feminine principle about? And just because he's bringing up the question, he asked me this earlier, and maybe someone covered the answer before. I don't know, so I'm just going to say it anyway.
Aram: When you speak about this idea that the masculine has punished women by raping them, the masculine made more and more of this and that. The masculine, the masculine, that men are the warmongers and the assholes and the rapists and so on. It looks so. Superficially, it looks so. But the question is, are those really men? Are these men who embody the principle of masculinity well?
Aram: If you look by what's written over there, the ultimate man is the one who has brought Shiva consciousness awakened within himself. Who did Jesus rape? Who did Milarepa war against? A person who is cosmic. Who did Albert Einstein destroy? Who did Buddha harm in any way? Even when provoked. Many lives were laid on the life of Buddha. Many insults were thrown to him. I read that he was [inaudible 01:13:14] even with contempt by some doubting people. And Jesus says, "Turn the other cheek. No war. Love your enemies." That's the teaching of the masculine principle.
Aram: When we speak about warmongers, men who have raped, these are cases where ... who deserve a lot of compassion. These are people that did not live out that level of masculinity. There was maybe heroism. There was maybe physical strength. There was maybe courage. There was in Alexander the Great. And you can value the masculine at certain level, and that gives that same Manipura. But beyond that, that Manipura was not consecrated with the masculine principle. It was run by the ego. It was run by the looks. Run by the winds. Run by the disaster, the desires. It was not consciousness running the show.
Aram: And that's why even though tomorrow we start with masculinity of Muladhara, Svadhisthana, and so on, and you see. You can specifically go into each of those domains. Without this, you can lose your way. It's not the masculine that has hurt this planet, because the real men did not hurt. They healed. They gave. They were compassionate, and they got themselves on the cross for humanity. It's men who are out of control, and out of control is yin.
Aram: To be able to control one's emotions, direct oneself right, choose the principles and to live by your principles, as the Gandhis, the Einsteins, the Buddhas have done, that's what it means to be a man. And such a man does not rape. Such a man does not lose control. Such a man does not react to an insult and slap across the face or make a war. This is the feminine principle that is riding the man, not the masculine.
Aram: Don't blame the elite, beautiful masculine principle for such events. Otherwise, a part of you will not go full on. You'll say, "Yeah, but masculine, there is this thing. It does all this negative stuff." It's not. More questions?
Speaker 3: I wanna say that, so-
Swami-Ji: [crosstalk 01:15:24] they deserve a break as well, because we have been speaking for two hours nonstop.